School supervision

[Guest2717]

Good evening all.
I'm interested to hear what other parents think of a new structure that's been put in place in our secondary school from September 18.

Currently the school day starts at 9 every day. On Monday and Tuesday classes finish at 3:45. On Wed, Thurs and Friday classes finish at 3:05 And supervised study classes are in place until 3:45 for children using buses as transport home or those who can't be collected until 3:45. This structure was put in place 5 years ago, previous to that classes were on 9 until 3:45 every day. Class time hasn't been reduced, break times were shortened to facilitate the change.

Parents received a letter this week, stating that from September 2018 supervised study will no longer be provided by the school between 3:05 and 3:45 wed, Thurs and Fri. This decision was reached by the board of management. That study is carried out on a voluntary basis and is on longer sustainable.
They go on to say that the school has no contact with bus companies to ensure students will be collected when school finishes and it's up to parents to ensure students are collected when school finishes.

They previously tried to roll this out for Sept 2017 and were offering supervision for bus eirean students only. Clearly they met with opposition and have since backtracked for this year only. But now going forward Sept 2018 will not offer supervision for any students
Buses will not be able to. Collect at 3:05 as they all double up and do primary schools at that time.
It's a large school with approx 600 students. A large proportion will use bus transport. It's located outside a very small town covering many town lands so many students travel long distances to this school.

So reading between the lines, what the school is saying is they will finish classes at 3:05 and students travelling by bus or those who can't be collected until 3:45 will be unsupervised and presumably not allowed on inside the school.
Is the school within their rights to decide to do this? I can't understand how they have decided their duty of care can stop knowing a large segment of pupils will have no option but to hang around and wait for buses.

The other local secondary school has until this year maintained their 9 to 3:45 School day but from Sept 2017 they have a half day on Friday. School buses collect then as it doesn't clash with primary.

When our school previously tried to change supervision this year the explanation given was down to costs but now they're saying it's voluntary and unsustainable.

Complaints to the school will fall on deaf ears, is there anywhere else an investigation can be raised?

[January]

Parents could organise a private bus company to collect on those days, or lobby Bus Eireann to put on an extra bus? I don't think the school have any responsibility, it's up the parents to arrange suitable provisions for collection if the school day has changed.

[Deise]

It would make more sense for the school day to run until 3.45 Mon-Thurs and the 2 x 40 min extra periods come off Friday afternoon. It would mean finishing 1h 20m early on a Friday, so 1.45pm finish. Chances are the bus companies would be able to drop home then.

Is there an AGM of parents committee coming up soon? Could you lobby support at that?

[Guest2717]

January all the private bus companies are currently in use for non bus eirean routes. They have already clarified that they can't facilitate 3:05 collections due to clash with primary schools. The school are aware of this
Bus eirean are already running their buses at a loss and will not put on more buses and drivers to do the same run current buses provide. This is rural Ireland not a city, all resources are limited.
The school buses are flexible when possible but clearly it's not possible when there's a clash of primary and secondary finishing times.
A half day Friday would've made more sense.

[TooTicky]

Sounds crazy. For three days a week the children are rushed through a school day with what must be very insufficient breaks, presumably to get people (staff? Kids that walk? Kids that get collected?) out and home safely if they are traveling long distances. At least I presume that’s why. But now they are going to rushed through and then not even provided with an after school option like an activity or a study space? That’s terrible. I agree with Deise, lobby to go back to the longer school day. It would probably also help the kids to have an appropriate lunch break, to eat and socialize and decompress before heading back into class - I’m interested in how the OP’s kids have found the shorter vs longer days.

[Guest2717]

Sorry if my replies are out of sync, I think they have to be approved first by a moderator.
To answer how the children find the short days. Every day is a rush as every lunch break time was reduced. I think their main break is now 30 mins and first break 15/20 mins.
It's a large building with class rooms and locker areas very spread out. First years find the lack of time to organise themselves very difficult. They struggle to get lockers sorted and eat. Buying food from the canteen is hectic from what I understand. My children adjust by second year.
Social interaction is very limited which I consider a great shame. Sports and activities that previously happened during long lunch now happen during the supervised evenings 3:05 to 3:45 aside from gaa football for boys which goes on after school. Most activities except gaa and again mostly for boys, falls by the wayside after a few weeks. The staff like the short days, they share supervision but the it takes a skeleton staff to do this so most finish at 3:05 the 3 days. I assume their opinion would've been taken into account while making this decision but I wouldn't be surprised if it weren't.

I know many schools are changing their hours and opting for similar systems but the ones I'm aware of have done this in conjunction with feed back from parents by offering a choice and going with majority. No feedback or opinion has ever been asked from parents. I can't understand their willingness to leave children unattended or to pressure parents into collections that the school bus routes cover. How are working parents supposed to do this and environmentally encouraging more cars on the roads is crazy. Currently collection times are hazardous with so many cars and buses. Buses get priority to drive up the avenue and leave but you either get there 30 min early or spend 30 mins in a queue up the drive. This takes two care takers. to supervise this when the school finishes at 345. I've seen near misses as there's so much traffic and pupils but thankfully both care takers are vigilant. It's less chaotic on staggered finish days.


What it will be like when everyone is collected by car three days a week doesn't bear thinking of. The majority of private buses have said they will not be able to arrive sooner than they currently do. Bus eirean will not be able to do any routes earlier at all.

[Elsie]

in fairness they are teenagers and should be able to cope with getting the bus at 3.45. presumably it arrives a few minutes before that. And now it just means the kids will have time to go to their locker and the loo and stroll out for the bus instead of break neck speed like before. The school will then realise that they cant physically handle the teens off the premises - only encourage them so they will probably only be waiting for a few minutes before the bus comes.

other version is yes - get a signature list done up and go to the parents that are on the school board to get it re-instated.

best of luck.

[Amberjack]

When I was in secondary school, our school finished 40 mins earlier on a Wednesday and Friday and we all just hung around outside waiting on the school bus which came at the later time, but it wasn't a big deal.

[DazedandConfused]

What stupid times, can see how they suit anyone!
I'd just let them hang around but that defeats the purpose of them getting off earlier.

[April]

Most schools have had to change their school hours because of the directive that classes have to be 45 minutes duration (think it’s 45 minutes).

In our area, the two local schools decided between them, in consultation with the school buss companies, the changes as they share school busses and they finish 10 minutes later Monday to Thursday and at lunchtime in a Friday. The school busses are then back to collect from primary schools.

In the OP’s, I try to lobby the school, through the parents association to re-think.

[Deise]

Most schools have had to change their school hours because of the directive that classes have to be 45 minutes duration (think it’s 45 minutes).

It was a directive that said all classes had to be a minimum of 40 mins, it was to facilitate JC teachers getting 40 mins off tuition time to go to JC meetings throughout the year.

[Guest]

There is no parents association that I've ever heard of. If there is one it's extremely low key.

I personally think the school are not prioritising their students at all in this decision. Yes technically they're teenagers and will be well able to cope hanging around for forty minutes. But it's leaving potential for bullying to escalate or to start.
I can't see how it makes sense to consider leaving hundreds of pupils standing around like this. Surely any school that puts it's pupils first would find a better solution.

[Guest2717]

I'm sorry for bringing this up again but I don't know where else to go for advice. I'm meeting a brick wall when I try to raise the subject with the school.
Last Friday as was advised there was no study and school ended for everyone at 3:05. We were told this could happen as buses could collect at 305 on Fridays. I don't know about private buses but bus eirean buses did not show up until 3:45 or after and it's not possible for them to come earlier on Fridays. The kids were shepherded out of the school at 3:05 and not allowed to stay inside. It was pouring rain and they were told this is the way it is and that's final.
Two teachers waited around and that was it
There's a large hall that has doors opening onto the area where the buses collect. You'd have thought they could've allowed pupils to wait in there but that didn't happen and categorically won't happen in future.
Is there anywhere other than the school I can raise my concerns?

[Guest2717]

I posted yesterday but it hasn't gone through?

[OnlyMe]

I think that Bus Eireann need to provide buses to coincide with school hours. The companies have to tender each year so if they cannot provide the service them they shouldn’t tender. I don’t see the school having responsibility.