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How is your DD with others outside of the family? Does she get on well with others or does she have difficulty?

I might be barking up the wrong tree entirely here but have you ever had an assessment done on your daughter?

I don’t blame your son for being sick of it, even an adult would get annoyed with that constant goading. It is best that they are separate for now at this age as he is still very young and it’s unfair that he has to put up with it and he is only 14.

Have you an Employee Assistance Programme at work? They might be able to help you also.

The last thing I will say is when they are annoying you the most is usually the time they need you the most so don’t stay mad at either of them, ask your daughter if she would like some help and consider getting an assessment for her. The type of behaviour you are describing sounds like she is dealing with a lot and it’s worth exploring.

It’s a very hard spot you are in but get some support for yourself. All the best x

I agree being embarrassed by parents is not unusual..don't take it personally. They start to change when they get a bit older and the parent child relationship matures into a parent young adult one...I find that with my older dd. I don't really parent her anymore...in that she is an adult. Like I am still her mum but she is responsible for herself , obviously not financially yet.

I will say whatever your dd said your son was very much in the wrong hiting her. I would be fuming tbh..however much she pushed his buttons he shouldn't hit her. I know its hard for him too but would you think she has a point and ye favour him sometimes...particularly your dh. I hope counselling helps you and maybe instead of focusing on their relationship just focus on yours and your dds. You list lots of positives so work with them. Do you tell her those? How great she is so hard working etc.

Will she move out to college? Maybe if ye can afford it encourage it in a subtle way!

Janeymac, those are very powerful and true words “sometimes people respond to hurt by anger “
Op do you think your dd would talk to someone, and tbh your son was very wrong to get physical with her
I hope things work out for everyone x

[quote=Kensington post_id=1402259 time=1629827131 user_id=26922]

I don't mean to upset you by sayinbg this, but it seems to me you and her father clearly see your daughter as the cause of all the tension in the house and you don't sound like you like her very much. I'm sure she is horrible to her brother but lets face it he was physical with her last night and it sounds from what you wrote that you see her wrongdoing as far worse. The thing is she will know how you feel - she definitely will have picked up on it and will know that you think her brother is the easier nicer child. I can completely see your problem and how stressful it is - her behaviour is awful so you don't like it and she then picks up on that and she behaves worse.
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I thought the same reading the op posts.
I could see how your dd might feel you favour your ds. You seem to be a lot more understanding towards your ds. Even when he got physical with her, you blamed her for pushing him to it. And I do understand that the tongue can be a terribly hurtful weapon too.
I think I would try to stop laying the blame on her all the time, even when you think she is to blame.I think I would try and hold my tongue myself. If they row, I think I'd try and defuse it without apportioning blame. If they fight a lot, and she is generally seen as the one in the wrong, then there is a lot of negativity coming her way. No wonder she is angry.
You said your dh thinks you have reared a monster, she's cold, hard etc... Very harsh words about your 17 year old child. You can bet she has picked up on this and knows what he thinks. Sometimes people respond to hurt with anger. I know as a teenager I did. So I wouldn't be surprised that she is angry.
It sounds very tough for everyone but I think it sounds like you should give your dd a break, even if you don't think she deserves it. Cut back on the negativity towards her and try overlooking her nastiness for a while. She doesn't sound like she is liked by her family and no matter how hard a face she puts on, that has got to hurt.
Fwiw- not wanting to be seen with your parents I think is a fairly normal teenage thing! I think the onus is on the grown up not to make something out of it that it's not.

I think counselling for you is probably the best thing at the moment. If your dd could spend some time with her grandmother, it might also relieve the tension for a bit. I would hate that though - would hate to lose a child to another home but it may be the best approach. If they don't have a relationship as adults, that isn't the worst thing ever.

I don't mean to upset you by sayinbg this, but it seems to me you and her father clearly see your daughter as the cause of all the tension in the house and you don't sound like you like her very much. I'm sure she is horrible to her brother but lets face it he was physical with her last night and it sounds from what you wrote that you see her wrongdoing as far worse. The thing is she will know how you feel - she definitely will have picked up on it and will know that you think her brother is the easier nicer child. I can completely see your problem and how stressful it is - her behaviour is awful so you don't like it and she then picks up on that and she behaves worse. Is there any way you could have family therapy with her - where someone can moderate between you and maybe help her feel listened to or even validated in how she feels.

[quote=Rita post_id=1402149 time=1629806399 user_id=771]
Will her grandmother keep her a while? Give you space.
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This might really help if an option.

How long are you looking at them both being at home? When will your dd finish school? Will she want to go to college and could that be in a different county (ie that she moves out)?

If the relationship can't be fixed salvaging your sanity should be priority and maybe distance and space is needed (that is assuming she behaves reasonably with other people like her grandmother).

Will her grandmother keep her a while? Give you space.

How is your dd elsewhere ? Does she get on with people easily or is she argumentive. Would you think she would also go to counselling

That sounds so stressful, glad to hear you have started counselling - I really hope that helps.

I remember hearing years ago that an age gap of 2.5 to 3.5 years is the hardest for the older child, they remember a time without the sibling but aren’t old enough to be excited by their arrival and see any benefits. It sounds like your guys might have that age gap, so some of your DDs anger might stem from early childhood - she might benefit from counselling too, but she’ll need to want to do it. It might be useful to see if there are any other methods/techniques she could be exposed to to try to get to explore her feelings.

From what you have described with your DH and yourself, they probably don’t have much visibility of functioning adult sibling relationships so they probably don’t see any value in having a relationship - if you could spend time with any adult siblings you know it might help their perspective.

Is the grandmother an ally for you guys in this? Does she mind that her adult children have no relationship and was that partly due to her playing them off against each other or factors beyond her control? No need to answer, just have a think about that maybe.

Hey. It's good you are getting counselling. Would the grandmother have her? If so, I'd send her off for a few weeks for some calm. I know that sounds dramatic but why not? You all need a break from her. You need respite, I'd take it.

You poor thing. I think teenage girls can often have a real gift for nastiness and button pressing when they want to. Had a humdinger with one of my DDs recently and it’s so emotionally draining. I really hope the counselling helps. It sounds like your DD could really benefit from some too but she may not agree.

Almost 3 months on and things have only gotten worse. Major row between the two of them tonight. DD was the instigator, however she cannot see this in any shape or form. She just cannot help herself she just winds up DS constantly. He's now bigger than her and far stronger and I'm just worried it's going to end up really bad someday. It did end up in a physical route tonight DS just couldn't hold his temper any longer and lashed out of course she retaliated and there was blue murder.

We took them out separately to trying to talk to each of them about the situation but DD refused to acknowledge she's in the wrong. She told us how much she hates all of us including us her parents. This is just not the normal I hate you stuff. She actually packed a bag and left to go to her grandmother's house.

We also sat with DS and had a long chat with him, I can reason with him he understands that he was wrong to retaliate and hit her but also expressed anger that she constantly pushes his buttons and is so nasty to him that he's trying his hardest to stop he stays in his room all day just to avoid being in the same room as her.

I've started counseling for myself as I think I'm going to crack up. DH is really worried about me and thinks they're going to drive me to an early grave. I have health issues and he's pretty worried about the effect it's all having on me.

I'm so sorry to read this, you sound extremely stressed at the situation, I wouldn't blame you btw.
I would imagine your DH doesn't want his children to be in the situation he is in now, with no communication with his siblings. Is there any way he could sit down with the pair of them and explain his reasoning and his history between his family?
While my dad was close to some siblings, he wasn't with others, just happens sometimes with large families. He was always making us aware that there was only two of us, myself and my sibling. That he didn't want us fighting or loosing touch when he was dead. (We got on somewhat, large age gap, as much as siblings do when younger), but it always really bothered him, up to weeks before he died.
I would imagine your DH feels somewhat the same. I wouldn't dismiss him from looking for that. It must be hard for him to be alone although having lots of siblings.
Your DD may well need some counselling with her jealousy and anger, if she's always been that way I would imagine hormones has little to do with it, moreso a trait she has.
Your DS is probably sick of your DD, I know DS here, the eldest, just can't be arsed with his sisters if their stroppy. He tends to eye roll, but at the same time he's always there for them.
Sorry I've no advice really, but I'd imagine a family meeting with no sulking off needs to be had. Your DH needs to make his emotions and feelings clear. Counselling seems to be a good option, both for your DD and as a family.

I think family counselling could be very useful here if you were able to arrange it. The focus would be on how the family members relate to each other within the family unit and helping each of you understand your own behaviour and how/why others behave as they do. You might well have to start with initial counselling for yourself and your DH and then in time extend it to include your two children. I too would find it difficult to imagine having siblings with such strong negative feelings and I don't think I could just accept that for what it is. It is interesting that your DH has no contact with his siblings and you mention that you are not close with your own. I really think a counsellor could be a great help here if you can find someone good/that you click with. Best of luck with it all.

I've a boy and girl and I would hate to think they would not be close as adults. I would find it hard to accept. I think it's more important because there are only the two of them.
I've no advice really but just to say they may not get on as teens but may well click as adults. You might just have to weather the storm.