Employment law

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Expand view Topic review: Employment law

Re: Employment law

by purple star » Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:52 pm

the way you said you were annoyed they took time off in a busy period really annoyed me. Now maybe this is a wind up and I hope it is, but one time I took a day off for a migraine where I was vomiting and in bed all day with blinds closed and my boss the next daw said to me but sure you wouldn't have a day sick for just a migraine. I replied that she clearly never had a migraine before. But it annoyed me.As a result of that attitude people do get reluctant to phone in sick and are coming to work with temperatures and really sick just spreading it around to everyone else.
You are being unreasonable for sure.

Re: Employment law

by Sally » Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:57 pm

LucyS wrote:In the Public Sector and many organisations, sick leave that spans a weekend will include the weekend. For example, an absence on a Friday followed by an absence on the Monday will be counted as four days as it includes Saturday and Sunday. This absence will require a medical certificate.

However, the Public Sector pays sick leave up to 3 months on full pay. The OP pays none whatsoever.
But that’s not what has happened in this case.
My understanding is the person was back on their next rostered day I.e. they had two days off, then a rostered off day, and then back to work.
Iamsoneedy wrote:Payment to an employee when they’re sick is not a ‘benefit’. It’s standard practice and has been for years among decent employers. It’s only in recent years I’ve been amused to note that it’s touted as a benefit in some job descriptions. Talk about clutching at straws.

If an organisation doesn’t pay people when they’re sick why should an employee be out of pocket to the tune of €60 to prove that they’re sick? Nonsense. They can’t have it every which way.
Sick pay is a benefit.
It is not my term, it’s the term used in the industry ( aka illness benefit)
It is not a statutory entitlement, so if an organization pays it, they do so as a benefit ie above and beyond what is required of them statutorily.

It is very common in multinationals and various good employers.
But there are many employers up and down the country where it is not paid, so it’s not as common as you portray. The local shop, garage, hairdressers, accountants office , small factory etc..... while these kinds of organizations form a vast chunk of the employment market in Ireland, huge numbers of them do not pay salary top up for sick leave.

And, although you think it is nonsense to require employees to provide a sick cert, it can still be included in handbooks and contracts, if an employer wishes to do so, a candidate can then decide to join the organization or not. If they think this is a draconian approach, then they can decline to join.
So, contrary to what you think, an employer can actually “have it both ways” as you put it.

Of course, as the market gets tighter and tighter those organizations might find it harder to attract good candidates, but the law does not prohibit a policy around managing absence that includes requirement for sick certs while simultaneously not having a sick pay benefit scheme.

Re: Employment law

by LucyS » Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:20 pm

In the Public Sector and many organisations, sick leave that spans a weekend will include the weekend. For example, an absence on a Friday followed by an absence on the Monday will be counted as four days as it includes Saturday and Sunday. This absence will require a medical certificate.

However, the Public Sector pays sick leave up to 3 months on full pay. The OP pays none whatsoever.

Re: Employment law

by Iamsoneedy » Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:08 pm

Payment to an employee when they’re sick is not a ‘benefit’. It’s standard practice and has been for years among decent employers. It’s only in recent years I’ve been amused to note that it’s touted as a benefit in some job descriptions. Talk about clutching at straws.

If an organisation doesn’t pay people when they’re sick why should an employee be out of pocket to the tune of €60 to prove that they’re sick? Nonsense. They can’t have it every which way.

Re: Employment law

by Sally » Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:49 pm

As others have said, you are being very unreasonable.
If an employee working regular M-F week was off sick on thurs and Friday and then back into work on Monday , we wouldn’t tell them that they were off for 4 days.
They would have had a sick leave of two days, not four.

Your contract states sick cert is required on third consecutive day of absence, so you are incorrect to say that you can unilaterally change the terms of their contract and ask for it in the first day of absence.


On the broader question of sick cert, whether the employer pays sick leave or not, it is perfectly reasonable to have a policy on how sick leave is managed.
Requiring a sick cert on day 3 is normal and appropriate, and if there were no such policy in place it becomes very hard to manage absentee levels in the business, leading to frustrated and disengaged staff as well as being potentially very costly for the business (actual cost as well as productivity cost) .
It would be a foolish employer who does not require sick cert on day 3, and who doesn’t have some form of return to work policies.

Payment of sick benefit is separate question.

Re: Employment law

by Rainbow :-) » Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:04 pm

If the 3rd day is their day off it doesn't matter if they're sick or not, it's their day off. I don't see why you should be annoyed with them 'taking time off ' at a busy time in work. If they're sick they're sick. We have no control over when we get sick. I do think you are being unreasonable.

Re: Employment law

by wuzziwig » Sat Dec 14, 2019 5:49 pm

The language you use is very telling. I'm sure the employee didn't choose to be sick at your busiest time of the year. You being pissed off at them for being sick is extremely petty. I'm glad my employers are more understanding than you appear to be.

Re: Employment law

by Polly13 » Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:43 pm

A rostered day off is not an absence so the staff member was absent so no cert under your policy/contract. If you insist on cert and call a rostered day off sick leave you owe the person a day's leave. You need to cop on.

Re: Employment law

by Unnamed poster 7 » Sat Dec 14, 2019 12:46 pm

Post Deleted

Re: Employment law

by janeymac » Sat Dec 14, 2019 12:36 pm

I am baffled at such a short sighted employer. You have no reason to disbelieve your employee as they don't abuse sick leave but you're annoyed that they got sick at your busy time. Unfortunately people can't choose the most convenient time to be sick. But you are frustrated so you're demanding a sick note in some sort of retaliation.
I feel more sorry for your employee who probably could ill afford to miss out on 2 full days of pay right at Christmas. And having lost 2 days of pay because you the employer don't pay sick leave, you want to impose a further financial burden on your employee by demanding they provide you with a sick note.
I wouldn't feel like a very valued employee if I worked for you and I think I'd know what my new year resolution would be. I think your attitude particularly in the face of Christmas isn't very conducive to keeping your employees.

Re: Employment law

by janeymac » Sat Dec 14, 2019 12:32 pm

....

Re: Employment law

by Poppy23 » Sat Dec 14, 2019 12:22 pm

castaside wrote:I've an employee who recently was sick from work. They were sick for two days and their 3rd day was their day off.


Our contracts states once absent for 3 days a GP note is required. They didn't bring one in. They are claiming that they were only absent for 2 days. I told them that they were not here for 3 consecutive days so they need a note.

I told them that I can request a note for 1 day if I feel it necessary. They don't abuse sick days (we don't pay any days absent) and I don't have any problems with this staff member. I am annoyed they took time off so close to Christmas, our busy period.

They are now saying that if I am going to count their day off as a sick day, then they are entitled to another day off , is this true ?

Can I make them bring in a sick note ?

They are saying they can't get one till Monday as no gps open, they are rostered on Monday. Do I change their day off to Monday ? They are working the week end.
Mary, is that you? :lol: :lol: :lol: Sounds like it.

I’ve worked for employers like this, I was long going. This in the very reason I no longer work for small owner run business as it can get very dirty very fast.

Re: Employment law

by Supermaman » Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:24 am

The OP said their contracts say once absent for 3 days a cert must be supplied and seem to have a weird interpretation of absent in this case. AND goes on to say they can ask for a cert for one day if they want... It's not just a matter of this is a good employee so let it go, the OP needs to reassess their managerial style.

Re: Employment law

by Dnwa » Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:29 am

1st off it depends on the industry sobif its a restaurant you must supply a cert for food saftey after 2 days .

If not the above you are in the wrong . If your building only worked Monday to Friday and didnt open on A Saturday sunday how would your theory work ?

This person does not abuse sick so just let it go and ask her is she ok !
Yes its fustrating people calling in sick but as long as its not abused pick your battles or u will create bad tension .

Re: Employment law

by LucyS » Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:35 pm

The OP reads like a page out of A Christmas Carol.

Bah! Humbug!

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